Sex in the Vatican?

2 Dec

During my blogroll visits, I read Sugabelly’s post on Igbo courtesans.  Some readers thought it was unlikely the Igbo societies ever had or tolerated courtesans so she made this comment:

Wherever there are men, particularly wherever there are wealthy, powerful men, there will always be groups of women that fuck them. It’s just the plain truth. It applies in ALL societies on Earth, in all time periods (well maybe except for Vatican City – but that’s a special case). Do you really think there isn’t some chick that’s getting jiggy with King Saud of Saudi Arabia as I type this?

I could not help but giggle at the idea of the Vatican as some sexless utopia.  Whatever is beneath the robes of cardinals and popes is definitely not wood – fyi.  These were men and they had needs, period.  History is full of  popes and their mistresses, lovers and illegitimate children.

Pope Alexander VI – worst of all popes had a dozen illegitimate children during papacy

Pope Julius – one daughter during papacy

Pope Pius – four children

Pope John Paul – three children before papacy

Pope Segius III – fathered Pope John XI

Pope John X – had a mother daughter affair

Pope John XII – deposed by conclave, killed by a jealous husband.

Pope Benedict IX  – resigned and got married

Pope Paul III – died having sex with a male page

Pope Sixtus IV – gay

Pope Leo X – gay

Pope Julius III – so gay

HOWEVER…for every morally corrupt man in the church, there were hundreds of pious men of God.


14 Responses to “Sex in the Vatican?”

  1. Azazel December 2, 2009 at 7:06 pm #

    I contend that the whole church organisation is made up of 0.9% God and everything else is made up of man..
    Such rubbish..
    But bravo @ sugar belly’s quote..
    She should copyright that

    • Rosie December 4, 2009 at 10:07 am #

      The girl knows how to post perfect “sound bites” or in this case “blog bites”

  2. Jedi December 3, 2009 at 7:03 am #

    Do not write about things like this, i wonder what your goal is, most times people like you want to show what is obvious, that all men are capable of doing wrong, no doubt, so why do you talk about this, there is a goal.

    1.) Do not use such as excuses to fall into evil, “After all even the holy popes can do this”, hidden justifications

    2.) You spend time writing what would weaken your christian brothers, and probably no article published on what will strengthen them.

    3.)You have not bought into the idea of praying for people that lead the faithful, you are interested in pointing out their wrong, for you to write something like this, you have obviously not prayed

    4.) Try publishing the moral evils your own father has accomplished in his life time, or see it published by another person. You obviously don’t call the popes holy father, yes there are not father to you that is why you can write such

    5.) Yeah yeah, “what is wrong in publishing a historical fact?”, you may ask yourself, obviously there is nothing wrong, i ask again, what is your objective, what is your goal, what are your priorities, why do you write the things you write and say the things you say.

    Do attack my person, attack my ideas, i am writing about your ideas and dispositions, i am not attacking your person, you are human and weak, this i am fully aware of, so am i.


    • Rosie December 3, 2009 at 10:28 am #

      Thanks for visiting my blog and thanks for your response. You are obviously one of those that believe in the infallibility of the church. I don’t. These are first and foremost human beings and prone to sin. It does not make them agents of the devil neither do my comments weaken the church. I am stating facts that are accurate and when we as Catholics start to accept the good, the bad and the ugly, the shame which no doubt prompted you to respond to this post will dissipate because it is HISTORY and factual. The church has stood the test of time and will continue to do so. My blog is not meant to start any controversy, I was responding to the idea of another blogger. Take it the way you take it. Once again, thanks for visiting my blog.

  3. BBB December 3, 2009 at 10:49 am #

    well even popes are just men
    Jedi dont take it personally it is after all d truth

  4. ~Sirius~ December 3, 2009 at 12:12 pm #

    The truth they say is bitter.
    It’s still the truth, and God is up for the TRUTH only- Jedi

    We are HUMANS…..liable to OUR choices.

    God is not interested what arm of The Church we are a part of while on earth- He’s only interested our personal relationship with Him.

  5. Ms. Sula December 3, 2009 at 1:53 pm #

    Why did I expect someone like Jedi to pop up?

    As catholics, we are raised to never question anything or dig beneath the surface of anything… And like you said Rosie, as long as we keep not “aknowledging these facts”, the shame will persist.

  6. Standtall-The Activist December 3, 2009 at 2:59 pm #

    God help us. I don’t know why this doctrine of stay off sex exist when it’s obviously not working! Won’t they be better of married instead of sleeping around especially raping children!

  7. Spesh December 3, 2009 at 5:07 pm #

    This is quite shocking……….but I love your conclusion,for every1,there were thousands that were pious!

  8. mynewhitman December 3, 2009 at 8:58 pm #

    I like your conclusion of the matter. I don’t buy the celibacy for priests argument but I won’t knock it unnecessarily either.

  9. Sugabelly December 4, 2009 at 12:55 am #

    Oooh, just getting around to reading your post. Good job digging up the Popes that had children in spite of their supposed vow of celibacy.

  10. Rosie December 4, 2009 at 10:13 am #

    BBB: I agree, it sounded too personal. Yet I don’t necessarily think he is wrong in his beliefs. I just don’t need him telling me what to write or not write on my blog. Kpom.

    Sirius: True talk about relationship with God. It is the core of our beliefs, not rituals and buildings.

    Ms. Sula: This kinda reminds me of Cathecism. All those memorizations we had to do with little time to actually study the Bible.

    StandTall: Non celibacy works for episcopalians and anglicans. My Uncle who is a priest argues that the priesthood is so time consuming that there is little room for family life. It is like being a Doctor.

    Spesh: My dear, I have known about this for a long time. It just made me see life in a different way – we all fall short of the glory of God, yet he/she loves us.

    Myne: I doff my hat for those who are honestly celibate.

    Suga: ha ha ha…it’s Google baby, yeah!

  11. jedi December 13, 2009 at 10:29 am #

    I think you have a misconception on what the “Church” is, that is why you think the church are the cardinals and clerics in the vatican. However, the church is the mystical body of christ and as such is infallible in matters of faith and morals once pronouced by the holy father “ex cathedra”.

    The problem with people and their opinion to things is that they are not informed and could voice their points of view from a shallow foundation, this has the inherent risk of confusing the weak and is often subject to misinterpretation, as is obvious to you now rosie, you can see that minewithman and standtall have deviated to issues pertaining to celibacy which had nothing to do with your original intent.

    I am a behavioral phsychologist with immense knowledge on the history of the church and philosophy, i advice you somie, when you write with these dispositions, you end up creating more harm than good.

    Subjectivism surrounds our society, you may not control the outcome, eisteins relativity principle beget relativism, he could not control the outcome (this is not to say he is responsible for the misinterpretation others give to his work), however, you knowledgeable and firm in your faith should not create room for misguiding others, not so well founded.

    Ms sula: You are mistaken about your opinion, however i will not push it further than this, you are mistaken because catholics are not brought up that way, you are simply thinking we are. It is not part of your cathecism and if you take profound and genuine interest in your faith, i am sure your parish priest will help you. Voice your opinion, reiterate history, but be careful enough not to pave way to doom other people because of the dispositions behind what you write or its perceived bias.

    Myne: those who are celibate received a grace from God for it, it is not something they battle about everyday, they are happy in it, this is not to say they are no challenges.

    Finally sommie, it is not shame that prompted me to write, as you can see from the trail that people have already started flying off tangents leveraging on what you wrote. You are right about the fact that it is historical, there is nothing for me to be ashamed of, it is the HOLY Spirit that guides the church, God can draw a lot of good from your seemingly “shameful acts”. I have written to strengthen my brothers/ sisters and yourself. You need to go to ROME, you need to go to St peters basillica, you need to hear the vatican choir, you need to see the pope pray during lent, you may then begin to see that some of the realities around you are not entirely material, therein you may feel physically the power of the HOLY SPIRIT IN THE CHURCH.

    I guide, i do not misguide. Thank you for appreciating my post.


    • lucidlilith December 14, 2009 at 1:54 pm #

      You write as though you feel I am attacking the church. I have no such intentions and neither do I have the time or wherewithal…

      Frankly if you knew me personally you would not have wasted your time with a long comment. I have a few family members who are priests and nuns. We have healthy debates about the traditions of the church and where it stands in this modern world.

      You seem to be more interested in me not writing anything negative about the church rather than proving my post is be factually incorrect. If I have posted anything in my blog that is incorrect, then please point it out. However, like I said …this post is not meant to be controversial…another blogger mentioned the Vatican as one of the places that may not have had courtesans and I put a post to show that the Vatican is in fact as a seat of power, had courtesans that saw to the needs of the men. Period. That is all there is to it. My faith as a catholic remains what it is. I welcome comments on my blog because everyone is entitled to their opinions, just like you are.

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